One positive outcome of the current anti-circumcision drive in Europe: Jewish and Muslim Members of Knesset decide to fight this onslaught of religious, cultural rights together

lifted from Jpost.com

 

MKs to traverse Europe to combat anti-circumcision proposals

10/23/2013 20:36
Edelstein calls urgent meeting of MKs; Tibi: This is a joint, moral interest of Jews and Muslims.

Baby undergoes circumcision

Baby undergoes circumcision Photo: REUTERS

MKs plan to travel through Europe in the coming weeks to battle anti-circumcision legislation.

Knesset Speaker Yuli Edelstein called 15 MKs who head caucuses for relations with different European countries  to discuss how to fight the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe’s resolution from earlier this month calling male ritual circumcision “a violation of the physical integrity of children” and that states should protect children “against violations of their physical integrity according to human rights standards.”

In addition, the MKs will check if there are bills on the dockets of parliaments in Europe that are meant to outlaw circumcision and work to block them by explaining the importance of the ritual to Jews and Muslims.

“This is a battle that unites religions. The PACE decision is scandalous and can set Europe on fire,” Edelstein warned.

The Knesset Speaker said that at that moment a European MP could be trying to pass the resolution as law in his or her country and the MKs must do all they can to stop it.

MK Ahmed Tibi (UAL-Ta’al) said that, although he does not usually travel with Knesset delegations, he will join this battle.

“I can’t imagine that circumcision will become illegal,” Tibi stated. “We [Jews and Muslims] have a joint interest of the first order, an interest that is supreme and moral. We must fight together.”

24 comments for “One positive outcome of the current anti-circumcision drive in Europe: Jewish and Muslim Members of Knesset decide to fight this onslaught of religious, cultural rights together

  1. MiracleRiver
    October 23, 2013 at 2:14 pm

    Wonderful news. I’m so happy!

    As well as reducing the evils of masturbation and too much good sex, plus being a cure for almost every disease under the sun, male genital mutilation [AKA “circumcision”] has now achieved the once thought impossible goal of peace in the Middle East.

    Who would of thought that just 15 square inches of “disposable” flesh from the penises of little baby boys, possessed a power of such magnitude.

    Further scientific research required urgently. Next stop: “Baby boys’ foreskins to power future manned Mars space mission”.

    You couldn’t make it up.

  2. martin
    October 24, 2013 at 7:23 am

    Actually Miracle River, your comments are just the usual that one would expect.
    Of course, many mothers don’t look forward to their baby being harmed. I suppose you are against all forms of action that parents partake in when having medical supervision by doctors to include “life saving” operations because the baby is too young to decide for itself and therefore, should wait till it’s old enough to make its own decision.

    15 square inches of foreskin from an 8 day old boy. Even Jewish boys are not blessed with that size. Actual scientific research has already confirmed that women whose partners have ben circumcised are less likely to be affected by cancer of the vagina. surely you might celebrate that. Unfortunately those who are dead set against anything will never open their eyes to anything which goes beyond theie own limits.

    You mentioned the wonderful and highly gifted and respected Moses Maimonides . I am sure his comments were made in good faith when he lived over 800 years ago regarding circumcision. However, medical knowledge has since moved on. I am quite certain that cancer was not a known killer in those days.

    As a follower of the above seer, do you also accept the thirteen principles of the Jewish faith, parts of it, or just using Maimonides for your own argument?

  3. MiracleRiver
    October 24, 2013 at 4:19 pm

    “Of course, many mothers don’t look forward to their baby being harmed”

    Why do they hand their babies over to men like this:

    Watch this evil Mohel showing and boasting about the “instruments” he uses to torture and mutilate little Jewish boys. Or as he calls it: *”tickling”* them:

    [Evil child abusing Mohel](http://youtu.be/XN65C9tbLP0?t=4s)

    Here he states quite clearly that the purpose of him mutilating little boys’ genitals is to damage their sexuality:

    [Mutilate infants to damage their sexuality](http://youtu.be/XN65C9tbLP0?t=10m34s)

    ‘“life saving” operations’

    Mutilating little boys genitals for religious reasons is not “life saving”.

    “15 square inches of foreskin”

    That is the average size of the adult male foreskin. Little Jewish boys who have had their genitals mutilated in order to damage their sexuality still grow up. Unless the process of mutilating them kills them; which is not unknown.

    “The prepuce: Specialized mucosa of the penis and its loss to circumcision”

    http://www.cirp.org/library/anatomy/taylor/

    Detailed analysis of penis, foreskin and circumcision:

    http://www.noharmm.org/snip.htm

    “cancer of the vagina”

    Mutilating babies genitals to stop some possible small chance of future disease is not medicine. It’s butchery.

    Research has shown that women who suffer female genital mutilation have a 50% less change of getting HIV/AIDS; and often, they have only some reduced sexual feeling. I assume you are in favour of cutting off little girls’ clitorises now?:

    *”Stallings et al. (2005) reported that, in Tanzanian women,
    the risk of HIV among women who had undergone FGC
    was roughly half that of women who had not; the association
    remained significant after adjusting for region, household
    wealth, age, lifetime partners, union status, and recent ulcer.”*

    Female Circumcision & Health Benefits

    *”International Journal of Obstetrics and Gynaecology”* — a peer reviewed journal of international renown:

    Female genital cutting in this group of women did not attenuate sexual feelings:

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1471-0528.2002.01550.x/abstract

    *”The Journal of Sexual Medicine”* — a peer reviewed journal of international renown:

    Pleasure and orgasm in women with Female Genital Mutilation/Cutting (FGM/C):

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17970975

    *”National Bureau of Statistics, Tanzania:”*

    http://www.tzonline.org/pdf/femalecircumcisionandhivinfectionintanzania.pdf

    http://mondofown.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/female-circumcision-health-benefits.html?m=1

    “Moses Maimonides… medical knowledge has since moved on”

    Actually, everything that I listed out he said has all been proved by medical science. He was totally right on every point. Would you like me to provide you with the references?

  4. October 25, 2013 at 1:16 am

    I think we are never going to agree, so you are very welcome to your point of view. I can’t imagine that any argument I provide will find any favor with you.
    Just like any of the arguments you so far have offered cannot sway me since the are riddled with mistakes, bent to suit your argument, taken out of context, selectively left out paragraphs in international Law which render your whole line of argumentation from a legalistic point of view invalid, etc, etc.

    But I am very happy for you to continue to contribute, so be my guest.

  5. : )
    October 25, 2013 at 2:01 am

    MiracleRiver,

    The people in this movies are so fare form people I like to use time on. I see that they have other problems but circumcision solve to them everything. Even if one are born into a Jewish family its possible to step out of it, to have friends that are non Jewish and live the life one want and let thing go. This just look sick!

    I respect parents that want to give their childen religion, most parents that are religious do it with love and care. As I see it one has to make sure that all parents are getting a real choise what they want to do. I baptism my children to show respect for Norwegian culture as many feel is Christian. Today can I say it was wrong of me to take so easy on religion. I have told my children that we did it because it was sweet and funny but it up to them to find their own religion. I understand MiracleRiver that you want to prevent mothers to do unvanted actions to their children. I feel sorry for you when you try to play God!

  6. MiracleRiver
    October 25, 2013 at 4:34 pm

    Theodor Herzl was the father of modern political Zionism and in effect the founder of the State of Israel. He and his wife Julia refused to amputate the foreskin of their son Hans, because they considered the practice “barbaric” and they wanted “strong, virile Jewish men to populate Israel, without any ‘essential’ part of them missing”.

    Theodor is buried on the top of Mount Herzl in Israel. I assume you would like him to be dug-up and returned to Austria, where he can rest easily with all those other “anti-semites” who want little Jewish boys to grow up “strong and virile”?

    As we both know, the great Jewish people span the vast range of political and social viewpoints. And time and again, Jews are found at the forefront of civil rights movements.

    Even in Israel itself, more and more Jews are refusing to attack their son’s penises with knives – and the movement is growing every day.

    Are you happy with this? – a grown Jewish man sucking the bleeding penis of an 8 day old infant boy he has just mutilated?:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPLh36XYolc

    Am I supposed to stand by and see Jewish babies killed by the Rabbi because they contract herpes HSV-1? 15 deaths this year:

    http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2013/03/15-babies-die-every-year-in-nyc-from-metzitzah-bpeh-herpes-hospitals-cover-up-deaths-leading-yu-rabbi-claims-567.html

    Jewish mother with an intact son!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3xBHgeAc3E

    And here’s a Jewish father refusing to mutilate his son’s genitals:

    http://www.drmomma.org/2009/12/jewish-fathers-letter-to-his-son.html

    And here are many, many other righteous Jewish men and women from Israel and around the world telling their stories and fighting this terrible mutilation of Jewish baby boys:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4UEbsg-k5Y

    http://www.jewishcircumcision.org/index.htm

    http://www.jewsagainstcircumcision.org

    https://www.facebook.com/JewsAgainstCircumcision

    http://www.beyondthebris.com

    http://www.cutthefilm.com

    https://www.facebook.com/JerusalemCircumcisionResources

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_ftgwUL4aE

    http://www.esquire.com/blogs/news/jew-against-circumcision

    http://www.britmila.org.il

    http://www.intactnews.org/node/112/1313862929/jewish-voices-current-judaic-movement-end-circumcision-part-3

    http://intactnews.org/node/168/1341064800/humanistic-judaism-increasingly%C2%A0critical-of%C2%A0child-circumcision

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4272455,00.html

    http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/magazine/even-in-israel-more-and-more-parents-choose-not-to-circumcise-their-sons-1.436421?block=false

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfnqN3YgTd8

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DRsJXJop5I

  7. smartone
    October 25, 2013 at 6:28 pm

    To compare a baby boy’s circumcision to the horror that is female genital mutilation is like comparing piercing one’s ear lobe to piercing one’s eyeball.
    Circumcising a baby boy does not lead to a life time of misery like it does when you mutilate a little girl. and there is valid medical evidence that it keeps both man and his partner healthier

  8. MiracleRiver
    October 26, 2013 at 1:36 pm

    smartone: “Put the knife DOWN and stand back from the little boy’s genitals”.

  9. : )
    October 26, 2013 at 1:46 pm

    MiracleRiver,

    its no need for a woman to have sex with a man to get an orgasm at all, so why have it when one can get pregnant? I think it will solve so many problems in the world if one educate people on how to plesure them self. Think about prostitution if everyone understood its a lot better to not have sex than it will go away by it self. Sex is just a waist of time and energy. And by the way more than 50% of all marrages ends in divorse so why not just make new way of living for people. I hope you see that these people that you know that feel so bad because they feel bad about their family can be helped to see its other ways to live and its ok.

    A band on religious rights before one use information work is really fanatic!

  10. October 26, 2013 at 1:56 pm

    tell me, what is your opinion on childhood obesity and the long term complications? Telly watching? insufficient or downright lacking parental attention the the psychological needs of their children? selective surgery for protruding ears? dental braces? abortions after week 22 of pregnancy?

  11. : )
    October 27, 2013 at 1:27 am

    McG,

    probably never crossed his mind that telly can be dangerous in any way, he likes it so he must have it. He likes to put his penis inside of a virgina with out a kondom so he does it, its just to tell the stupied bitch to take a pill or get it fixed he wont be a dad.

    I take it very seriously when people are in personal problems and need help. All parents has to think when it comes to religion and why they do it, if they just do it for tradition and to please their family they will not be able to help their child mentaly if something should go wrong then the children has to get proffesional help to solve their parenting hate that might develop if they don’t understand their parents.

    Information work on parents is the way to go, the need to stamp parents in general as bad and unstable has to come form people that has mental problems but don’t see it! They will start on the religious then move on to the secular with this new world order.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=By84_xRCE3U

  12. de Bacle
    October 27, 2013 at 2:18 am

    MiracleRiver brings Herzl as an example of a Jew opposing Brit Mila. Against Herzls and a number of other Jews (who also have very little sympathies with traditional Judaism) stands, for example, the views of Nobel Prize Laureates (also famous) and about a third of the males on this earth, who don’t feel mutilated and continue the practice.
    The arguments should have been “filtered”, scrutinized for “missing information” and “put in perspective” to avoid skewed asymmetry. Here the irrelevant anecdotal and pseudostatistical opinions are sheer demagogia. MiracleRiver, involuntarily and perhaps subconsciously self critical, highlights the irrelevant and presumptious style of her/his own argumentation:
    ” I assume you would like him to be dug-up and returned to Austria..”

  13. martin
    October 27, 2013 at 6:50 am

    Miracle River (what a strange title. what exactly is meaning for your online name?) You evidently did not answer the last question regarding the 13 principle of faith. May we have your answer please?

  14. martin
    October 27, 2013 at 6:57 am

    Norwegian, I believed you to be a Jew, perhaps a non practising one, but still a Jew. Obviously, I was mistaken, as you had your child baptised. You have forsaken your child’s roots by doing so, if in fact you are Jewish, making the choice in doing so. That you chose this form of action is your choice. I therefore have to ask, just how you believe that you are still Jewish? Jews throughout 2000 years of persecution by the church have faced a choice of conversion or death. Many and by far the majority chose the latter.
    Judging by your comment, to be a Norwegian, one must be a Christian?

  15. : )
    October 27, 2013 at 9:30 am

    Martin,

    if I should undo the in puts I have taken up in life, I would have to really study to get a pure Jewish mind. If anyone that had Jewish grandparents could just jump out of the closet and claim their rights, I doubt Judaismen as a religion and culture would survive all the new imputs sorry to say so. My family just wanted to survive they gave up for that Martin. I doubt its a easy way back after what happen in 2 ww.

    For my children I made a choise that make it more easy for them to feel pressed into Christianity than if I had not baptised them. If it had been today I would just have made a family party at home and taken a lot of photos.

    What I see as the problem in Jewish life today is people like me that have no clue why they sometimes behave Jewish and other times Christian. I’m glad to know more, and undestand that it might confuse people that have knowlege about religion and culture to meet me. I can explain my self in a better way if they ask me to. Most people that ask get as you Martin when I try to explain, they just make up their mind for them self. Some stalk me and make my life bad since I miss behave, other just see the situation and are starting to become very good freinds.

  16. martin
    October 29, 2013 at 4:49 am

    Norwegian, what you decide to do is your own affair and nothing to do with anyone else. However, your thoughts and actions as nice as they are, very often do not offer answers to the problems that Jewish people are facing today. Some give up, some hide what they are, some state their intention not to put up with any nonsense whatsoever. I belong to the latter and always have done. I suppose the root of my Hebrew name is quite correct. It means rebel and to fight for what you believe is right.

    Miracle River has not answered my question, nor for that matter did Mai-Britt. Both of whom just wanted to make a point. Quite frankly looking at all the sites that MR placed on this site denouncing circumcision makes me wonder just what they do stand for. It obviously is not for the sake of the born child. Have either of them denounced the on going slaughter of formed unborn children called abortion? Do they make any noise whatsoever that some women choose abortion as a means of birth control? Sick people indeed!

  17. : )
    October 29, 2013 at 6:54 am

    Martin,

    I have tried many times to say to you that you dream you self away in me. I feel so sorry for people that want to find their family. I have meet Jews that try to find their family back 100-200, 400 and 2000 years. I have made a dessision that I put the line for where I think its just madness after 100-200 years. I accept that I’m related to people in the 100-200 periode. It was a chaos period in Europa so 100% Norwegian is probably something I’m not. To have some order in the chaos I think that people that want to find their family has to make contact with the Jewish communities and ask if they have members of their family left. If not then its people that just want peace Martin and no one should make any contact with them!

    I think Europa needs Jewish communities more than Jews need to live in Europa after 2 ww! I hope that Europa one day can be a place where human life is protected!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ejga4kJUts

  18. MiracleRiver
    October 30, 2013 at 12:08 pm

    I am shocked to see all you people posting here supporting female genital mutilation… I mean, the parents have the religious right to mutilate their little girl’s genitals correct?

    So this little girl here is not “suffering” at all:

    http://aandes.blogspot.co.uk/2010/04/circumcision.html

    Only a slither of her external glans clitoris is cut off:

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_IJPSCIwonqQ/S9aKCfHEdSI/AAAAAAAAC-Y/dTOc04Q0FVs/s1600/23042010540.jpg

    But this little boy having a huge chuck of his penis amputated – the most sensitive part, and representing 50% of his total penile skin – destroying the multiple functions and properties of his foreskin:

    Little boy being tickled by child-abuser with scalpel:

    http://youtu.be/k0_WmNFVGMY?t=3m5s

    Here are two world famous Somali women who had their genitals mutilated when they were young girls. They campaign around the world against female genital mutilation male genital mutilation:

    Ayaan Hirsi Ali states clearly that MGM is genital mutilation:

    http://youtu.be/WFNhM-F089E?t=19s

    Soraya Mire: “mutilation is mutilation”

    http://youtu.be/Ggqa6CCTR-4?t=1m7s

    Dr Nawal el Saadawi is an Egyptian Doctor who had her genitals mutilated as a girl. She is clear that the MGM practiced in Egypt is just as bad as the FGM practiced there; and she tells about the girls and boys that die as a result – including a terrible story about a little boy who has the glans of his penis amputated.

    Dr Nawal el Saadawi: BBC interview discussing FGM and MGM in Egypt

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p012nt89

    The campaign for Genital Integrity is for all human beings: women, men and intersex.

  19. October 30, 2013 at 2:19 pm

    Ahahahaaaahaa!
    You might take delight in parading your profound ignorance around, but kindly don’t do the mistake of assuming that everybody is like you.

  20. : )
    October 31, 2013 at 12:07 am

    This is just provocation!

    And so simpel minded that its acctually cute McG.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5wIUDzuqO8

  21. MiracleRiver
    October 31, 2013 at 1:39 pm

    McGonagall: “…don’t do the mistake of assuming that everybody is like you”.

    … I won’t, don’t worry 😉

  22. : )
    October 31, 2013 at 11:11 pm

    MiracleRiver,

    oh I remember in the kindergarden this game. You are dum oh no them that says that others are dum are dum them self. Sadly has it been so the last eight years her in Norway with our perfect government. You really have to wash your ears no matter how awfull you think relgious people are, Norway as a democracy will not make laws against it. But please cary on and make noise and chaos so people in PST has some work.

    Grown up and get a life, to live after your emotions really make you odd!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOz3p6k5O2g

  23. martin
    November 1, 2013 at 5:50 am

    So Miracle River, as a person with the greatest knowledge and understanding of the Jewish religion, why do you place female genital mutilation here. It is clearly not practised by the Jewish people.

    Again I ask you, do you follow the 13 principles of faith as expressed by Maimondes?

    Do you show as much agitation and frustration regarding the mutilation and destruction of human life, when women use abortion as a means of contraception? Do you spend as much time and effort in combatting this murder of innocent babies, as you do criticising Jewish boys aged 8 days old having a tiny piece of their penis taken?

    Come on MR, be open and honest here.

  24. martin
    November 5, 2013 at 3:51 am

    Oh Miracle River, what a let down you have shown yourself to be.
    You do so love to dish it out, but, unable to answer some simple questions. Your hysteria shows just what a deviant that you are. Tut tut.

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